Curse

samcobra · Apr 09, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Honestly, ANET made a plethora of skills and different effects and abilities of classes for a reason. These should be allowed to be explored in pve and actually encouraged. For example, diversion in pve. Nobody would have it! nonetheless, its an excellent skill and amazing shutdown. Skills such as that or such as Ebon Dust Aura are amazing skills, but aren't quite encouraged in pve except for rare "solo farming build, makez moniez fast!! kkthx" builds. Honestly, I believe ANET should learn that big huge numbers and bombing isn't the way to make things hard. Making things challenging and requiring thought out of the box and utilization of all the tools and abilities available to you is what makes a game good.

Orbberius · Apr 10, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Design a PvE boss skillbar... hows that for a cheap and easy contest? I'd participate

Bankai · Apr 10, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

That'd be nice.

Crippling slash-Gash-Final thrust-Fireball

HADOUKEN!

Shadis · Apr 10, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

i agree wholeheartedly. PvE is like a DPS brawl. One side thows a couple of thousand damage at you, you tank it and throw a couple of thousand back.

ANet's main problem is that they seem to link difficulty with big numbers. And the fastest way to defeat these enemies is to attack them with even bigger numbers. If PvE showed variety then people would start to think outside the simple tank and nuke strategy.

Enemies need to work together and have skills that compliment each other. The best we see are simple 2-combo skills like mind wrack and spirit shackles or famine and debilitating shot.

I'll be very dissapointed if all hardmode is is mobs that do 3 times more damage and have attribute points beyond anything logical.

I agree with this. DoA showed us that. I call it the "Diablo 2 School of Challenge". I really hope they put a lot more thought into Hard Mode than beefing up everything to insane power levels and putting more of them.

Tetris L · Apr 10, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Although samcobra's post is a bit too simplifying for my taste, he clearly does have a few points. I hope (and I think) that ANet is going to improve the situation with "Hard Mode", as Gaile Gray told:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Rather than simply staying with the general set of changes and rules we'd originally intended, we're also adjusting creature Skill Bars throughout the game to make the fights more interesting.

around · Apr 10, 2007, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Face it, that will only work because Goku is OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAANNNNNDDDDDD!!!!!!

In all seriousness, I do think that giving mobs two professions, or at least bosses two professions will make PvE a lot more interesting.

Raxxman · Apr 10, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

I seriously hope they mix up skill bars and make the enemies interact more like they do in the challenge arenas (hopefully better AI but they do seem to work better than standard monster AI)

I'd like to see balanced enemy builds that actually challenge without the massive hp and dps bonus they currently rely on.

I hope it's not just wishful thinking.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Apr 10, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Why not wait for hard mode to come out then all the leet players can ask for level 50 monsters with 3 professions, unlimited energy reserves and 100 armor against everything to fight.

What veterans who have beaten the game forward and backward have forgotten is that there are new players joining every day. If the game was made into a leet player paradise new players who are getting trampled under foot by level 50 monsters on the beginner islands and in pre, just so you guys could fight you level 100 monsters in the end game areas, would give up in frustration.

Raxxman · Apr 10, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

sorry may not of been clear but I was referring to hard mode.

Blame the Monks · Apr 10, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

A secondary advantage of having pvp style mobs (2 war, 2 caster, ranger, para, 2 monk or so on) would be anet would be forced to make reasonably balanced, effective builds from every skill in the game.

If they had to do that, it wouldn't take long for them to realize how many skills are simply conceptually flawed and can never be effective or can only be effective when buffed to the point where spamming > skill.

Pwny Ride · Apr 10, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

and since PvE doesn't really matter,

Yea i pretty much lost all respect for the post bout there.

I think that this is what Hard Mode is going to improve. Overall difficulty and enjoyment, forcing players to think through areas, and not have a DPS spamfest.

I still can't get my head around why PvE is imbalanced all of a sudden. There really isnt anything to balance anything with (from my point of view at least). Do we see the NPCs and the monsters complaining when we wipe missions?

And in the end if you dont like it you can always not play, it's the solution that works for everyone. Do you really even know the meaning of ubalanced gameplay? Have you played some of the other online games out there? A-net has made this game playable and thats what matters in the end (don't anyone mention the Domain of Angush.)

I think a-net has learned from the DoA mistake. We can only hope that Hard Mode will make the game more enjoyable for long-term players. Going back the the quote at the top of the page, if PvE 'doesnt really matter', why make a page long post about it?

samcobra · Apr 10, 2007, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pwny Ride

I still can't get my head around why PvE is imbalanced all of a sudden. There really isnt anything to balance anything with (from my point of view at least). Do we see the NPCs and the monsters complaining when we wipe missions?

Your statement right there is what I'm complaining against. No, PvE doesn't matter insofar as there is nobody to complain about it. People like rolling through shit as fast as they can with the most overpowered skills and abuse of enemy AI possible. They LOVE being able to have enemy melee mobs keep hitting through things like vengeful was khanei before finally realizing that it might be hurting them. They LOVE that mobs don't actually have a radar and therefore can't understand that behind that stupid warrior standing there, there's a bunch of casters that they could just eat up. In fact, pve has always been imbalanced due to issues such as this. Monster skillbars are usually pretty bad and monster AI is often worse. However, players love to TAKE ADVANTAGE of imbalanced game mechanics. Take a look at the entire celestial tournament. However, balance issues get recognized when either of a couple things happen:
1) people come up against this stuff and complain because its so imba and is really unfair to gameplay
or
2) the imbalanced skills are so prevalent that running these imba skills pretty much guarantees you victory over any other build

In PvE, the first doesn't apply because, as you said, enemies can't complain. However, when you see a prevalance of only 3 major class types in PvE out of a possible 10 that should be seen out there, the second is bound to apply. Also, PvE has become more imbalanced starting with factions with the ideas that halving mob cast time or doubling enemy damage, etc. is the way to have good gameplay.
And, to refute your final point, I wouldn't be making this post if I didn't PvE. However, I stand by my statement since the skills you matter don't really matter in low-level pve much at all. There are several players who played a mending wammo with 5 defensive stances and have made it through an entire three campaigns. This doesn't mean their skillbars are good, it just means that it doesn't matter what you run in low level PvE because its inherently imbalanced and biased towards the side of the player. While I do appreciate the new nightfall bonuses (stuff like moddok crevice where snares are key), and while I think ANET is trying to take steps in the right direction, reversals like DoA constantly bring up the question of how ANET is trying to approach higher level PvE. In my opinion, they are doing it the wrong way. However, nothing is set in stone until Hard Mode is out. Lets see what that brings.

lyra_song · Apr 10, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

I hope hope Anet adds some good reasons for Mesmers in hardmode.

^_^

People have posted ideas of making PvE harder through balanced mobs with builds that cycle randomly (making PvE very much like PvP)

i think that would seriously be fun and challenging.

Bankai · Apr 10, 2007, 02:51 PM // 14:51

They'll be changing Enemy bars.

So they'll also change monk bars.

Good monk bars=Mesmers are very nice to have

samcobra · Apr 10, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Update: has anyone seen the leaked skillscode for the monster skills? Those speculated skills which are believed to be future game content confirms my belief that ANET is not going to balance pve and is instead going to continue to rely on making stupidly big numbers to make things hard. Again, while a lot of dumb people enjoy making things go BOOM and fighting things that make things go BOOM, some of the other people in this game actually want to play against mobs that require a balanced, coordinated team and strategy.

Sux for us, it seems.

tomcruisejr · Apr 10, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

Update: has anyone seen the leaked skillscode for the monster skills? Those speculated skills which are believed to be future game content confirms my belief that ANET is not going to balance pve and is instead going to continue to rely on making stupidly big numbers to make things hard. Again, while a lot of dumb people enjoy making things go BOOM and fighting things that make things go BOOM, some of the other people in this game actually want to play against mobs that require a balanced, coordinated team and strategy.

Sux for us, it seems.

Yea, I saw. Too powerful and looks very imbalanced.

Balanced PvE ftw coz it will solve everything in GW, I think.

samcobra · Apr 10, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I love how you edited your second post in the double post. However, instead of deleting it, you just added "I think" to the end. Thats pretty pro.

tomcruisejr · Apr 10, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Its called lag ><